Interview transcript:

Terry Gerton: Well, I want to start by congratulating you on your election as a NAPA fellow, a group that’s near and dear to my heart.

Katy Kale: Yes, I know it is very near and dear to your heart. I am thrilled to be part of this organization, one that I have really looked up to for many years.

Terry Gerton: It’s always interesting to look back at the history of folks who get elected. You’ve spent years in key operational roles across government, Capitol Hill to GSA. Tell us what first drew you into public administration and why you stuck with it for so long.

Katy Kale: Thank you for asking that question. I really have always believed that public service is more than a job. It’s truly a calling, which is something that we heard a lot at the NAPA conference last week. For me, it’s also part of my family legacy. So I am a third-generation public servant. My mother, my uncle, my grandfather, all public servants before me. And I actually got my first government job in the federal government as a page in the U.S. House of Representatives when I was in high school.

Terry Gerton: Wow.

Katy Kale: And from there, I just knew that this is what I wanted to do. So I grew up in Massachusetts, but came down to Virginia, went to George Mason University, majored in government and politics, worked for a civic education group before I then went back to the Hill. And as you said, I worked for four different senators. I was a senior leader at the White House. And then most recently, I was the deputy administrator at a wonderful agency, which is the U.S. General Services Administration. I also was, during that time, during the last administration, I was chair of the U.S. Access Board as well, which is a very small, sometimes unknown agency that makes sure that all people, and especially people with disabilities, have access to their federal buildings, to their federal websites. And I had the honor of expanding my own experiences by taking on that job as well.

Terry Gerton: Katy, as you look back at all of those years of service, all of those diverse organizations that you worked in, is there a moment or a project or an initiative that really stands out as especially meaningful to you? Something that makes you think, ‘That is why I do this work?’

Katy Kale: So Terry, I think that you know this more than most, like the thing about being a public administrator is that so much of what we do is behind the scenes. And most people out in the public often only notice something when it goes wrong or goes sideways. But every day, public servants are creating this really efficient and effective government that works and makes life easier for people. And so we really plan for our good days, but we also are always watching out and figuring out what we have to do on bad days and making sure that we can create contingency plans and make sure that the public really doesn’t know what could have happened. And because of that, I think that a lot of public administrators and public servants in general measure their careers in maybe these like small wins that add up as opposed to one big visible accomplishment. Now, that said, I am very proud of the work that I’ve done, especially the teams that I’ve been part of and what we’ve been able to achieve together. And I’ll give you two quick ones. One is back in like 2008-2009, I was the director of operations for the Obama-Biden presidential transition team. And during that time, I worked closely with not only GSA, but also the outgoing team from President Bush’s administration. And I think that what I’ve been seeing a lot lately, and especially anytime transitions come up, is that this group of people were really able to execute one of the most successful transition of presidential powers. And I’m very proud of that. At the same time, figuring out what it was going to look like on Inauguration Day and really just kind of overseeing that daily operations, facilities, technology, human resources, security, all those little things again that are behind the scenes, but really add up over time. The second one is much more recent. It is back in 2021 when I returned to GSA. And at that point, I was both the deputy administrator, but I was also the acting administrator. And it was at the height of the pandemic and the agency and the people were really facing this kind of uncertainty and low engagement, low morale. And really, we realized that we needed to reimagine how and where government work happened. I was tapped to co-chair a cross-government task force. It’s a mouthful, it’s the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force. But there, we developed policies and procedures that we made sure were consistent in messaging. Not only throughout the government but within an agency itself. And knowing that there were so many more unknowns than knowns, we wanted to make sure that we were able to iterate as the situation was changing. And then within GSA, I wanted to make sure that we were leading by example and we really took a look at every position and determine whether it was an on-site position or if it was eligible for remote work. We made sure that we were polling our workforce to see what additional equipment that they needed to do the people’s work either at home or at the office. We asked for feedback often and made sure that we were responding to that feedback. So that feedback loop and because of that, I’m very proud to say that GSA was one of the top five places to work in government during those years, which were really tough years for a lot of people.

Terry Gerton: That’s right. I’m speaking with Katy Kale. She’s a former deputy administrator of GSA and a newly-elected fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration. What would you say if you were speaking to someone just starting out now? What advice would you give them about building a career in public service?

Katy Kale: I love this question because I’ve received it so many times over my career. And I’ve gotten the question a couple of times lately, too. At first, I thought maybe it’s different than it was a year ago, almost a year ago when I left the administration. But I think it’s the same. And the first one is to say thank you, right? Thank you for choosing public service. And there is a lot of very important work that needs to be done at all levels of government: federal, state, local, and not only today, but well into the future. And we really need people who have talent and we need their passion and we need creativity, which often is overlooked. And I think to an individual, I would recommend that they do what they enjoy. There is a place for just about any career within public service. Often, people only think about the policymakers or the elected officials when they’re thinking about government and public service, but it really includes so many career choices and career paths. Just thinking about folks that I’ve worked for: statisticians to building managers to police and security officers to astronauts. There’s so many jobs from the private sector that translate into the public sector and connect you to a mission-driven organization. I think the other thing is really to succeed in public service, you need humility, you need to be authentic, you need a sense of humor certainly helps. And you really need to connect with a purpose that is greater than yourself. And a lot of it is not an individual work, it is really teamwork. I used to work for an organization and they would say that democracy is not a spectator sport. And I loved that. But I think over time, I’ve really realized that democracy, and especially public service, is a team sport. We all need to work together and I’m really looking at the next generation to join us and really step up and continue to make a difference.

The post From Capitol Hill to GSA, Katy Kale has spent decades behind the scenes making government work first appeared on Federal News Network.

The current shutdown has officially made history as the longest funding lapse the federal government has ever endured — and the impacts are widespread.

About 1.4 million federal employees who are either excepted or furloughed are on track to miss a second paycheck at the end of this week. Many federal services are shut down, and rising absences among excepted employees are leading to further delays and closures.

On top of that, the Trump administration has been threatening reductions in force and questioning the legal guarantee of back pay for furloughed workers. For many federal employees, it all makes the current lapse in appropriations unlike any other.

Recent research from the Partnership for Public Service found that about half of Americans are seeing the shutdown’s impacts firsthand in their communities, most commonly through travel delays and facility closures.

But Max Stier, the Partnership’s president and CEO, said even bigger harms from the shutdown will be felt for the long-haul.

“Our future capacity is going to be diminished substantially,” Stier told reporters during a press briefing Wednesday. “You’re going to see that across the board, whether you talk about air traffic controllers or VA doctors or food inspectors. So many of the functions of our government are highly skilled professionals that require long-term investment.”

In the wake of setting the record for the longest-ever shutdown, some organizations are turning the conversation toward the need for long-term reforms in the appropriations process, and the need for better governing in the future.

The National Academy of Public Administration (NAPA), a congressionally chartered non-profit that focuses on government management reforms, urged Congress to pass legislation to modernize what’s become a dated budget process for the federal government.

“Good government depends on strong leadership that can effectively manage the federal budget,” James-Christian Blockwood, NAPA’s president and CEO, said Wednesday.

To avoid future harms of shutdowns, NAPA also called for lawmakers to consider changing the timing of the budget cycle in government, as well as requiring Congress to stay in session until appropriations are enacted.

“This shutdown represents a failure in our budget process at a time when public trust in government is already unacceptably low,” Blockwood said. “This cannot and should not continue.”

There have been at least some attempts in Congress this year to end the possibility of shutdowns once and for all. In September, lawmakers introduced various bills, including the Eliminate Shutdowns Act, the Government Shutdown Prevention Act and the End Government Shutdowns Act. Each would operate slightly differently, but all aim to force Congress into a continuing resolution, rather than a shutdown, in the absence of a spending agreement.

Stier said that type of change would “encourage members to actually come together and do their work … and not make those who have no responsibility for [a shutdown] bear the significant price.”

“No other country does it this way — and it’s not a compliment,” he added.

Reforming pay for federal employees under funding lapses has also become a key part of the shutdown conversation. Although both furloughed and excepted federal employees are supposed to be ensured back pay under a 2019 law, the Office of Management and Budget has called into question whether furloughed employees are automatically guaranteed that compensation. Many lawmakers, attorneys and unions harshly criticized the administration’s new position, and said the law was clear in its intent.

When asked again this week if the Trump administration would guarantee back pay for furloughed employees, as required by the 2019 law, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt did not provide a definitive answer.

“This is something we are very much open to discussing with Democrats, as part of the discussions about the continuing resolution to keep the government open,” Leavitt told reporters Tuesday. “It’s something that Republicans are talking with Democrats about right now.”

Another possibility for long-term reform includes paying federal employees immediately, even throughout a shutdown, rather than only paying them once a funding lapse ends. Stier said back pay should already be guaranteed for all federal employees, but immediate pay would be the better solution.

“There is no other workforce in our country that has that burden to bear, and they should not have to bear it,” Stier said.

In October, lawmakers introduced various proposals attempting to immediately pay federal employees while the shutdown continues. But due to disagreements over the inclusion of furloughed employees, as well as whether to prevent the administration from conducting RIFs, the legislation failed in the Senate. Congressional aides have confirmed that bipartisan discussions on the legislation remain ongoing, but progress is unclear.

Other areas that may be ripe for change include the possibility of withholding pay for members of Congress during a shutdown, as well as requiring Congress to remain in session until lawmakers reach an agreement on appropriations.

Regardless, whenever the current shutdown does end, and hundreds of thousands of federal employees return to work, Stier said it will be a return to high workloads and low morale for many.

“We are seeing a layer cake of trauma, incident after incident that [federal employees are] all experiencing,” Stier said. “As a result, many talented people have already thrown in the towel, and many more are likely to do so.”

The post As shutdown hits record length, many fear long-term impacts first appeared on Federal News Network.

After agencies shed more than 200,000 federal employees this year — and with more staffing reductions possibly on the way — the Office of Personnel Management is now looking to pivot toward attracting more technological expertise into the federal workforce.

OPM Director Scott Kupor, during an interview at the National Academy of Public Administration’s national conference on Monday, hinted at some upcoming tech hiring initiatives that OPM is planning to launch “very shortly.”

Though Kupor did not provide a specific timeline for the launch, nor many details of what the tech hiring initiatives would entail, he emphasized a broad goal of pushing agencies toward the recruitment of tech skills — particularly in artificial intelligence.

“There’s no question the world is going to get supercharged with the introduction of AI, and I think the thing that government has to do is not be the last dinosaur,” Kupor said during NAPA’s event. “If we do that, there’s no amount of organizational structure or marketing or anything else that’s going to save us — we have to be willing to embrace these things.”

In addition to tech hiring initiatives in the works, Kupor also discussed the need for the current federal workforce to adopt AI and other technologies into workflows. That should be through a more incremental approach, he explained — for example, by incorporating technology to see if it can make employees’ work “5% better or 10% better,” rather than having agencies launch a full-fledged “2040 AI plan.”

“We know that risk-taking generally has not been a strong suit of government, quite frankly,” Kupor said. “We’ve got to push people to go a little bit out on the risk curve and be willing to adopt new technologies.”

Emphasizing early-career recruitment

At the same time that OPM is looking to onboard more tech expertise in government, Kupor said he also wants to double down on the recruitment of early-career federal employees.

Currently, many long-time federal employees have either left, or are on track to leaving, the civil service. That’s partially a result of the Trump administration’s workforce overhauls this year, coupled with an aging federal workforce, many of whom are retirement-eligible. Less than 10% of the federal workforce is under the age of 30.

“We have to figure out a way to actually get early-career people to think about government as an important part of their development process,” Kupor said. “I think you’re going to see a lot of activity, certainly from OPM, to try and progress that.”

Kupor also discouraged the idea that individuals should spend their entire careers in just one sector. Instead, he said he wants to allow flexibility for employees to join or leave the civil service at various points in their careers.

“I think one of the things we’ve done a really poor job on is embracing people having evolving career opportunities that encompass both private sector and public sector,” Kupor said.

OPM has forecasted that by the end of the calendar year, the government will shrink from 2.4 million employees down to 2.1 million employees, with a total loss of about 300,000 feds. The Partnership for Public Service estimates that about 211,000 employees have so far vacated their jobs, either voluntarily or by force, since President Donald Trump took office in January.

When asked how he would encourage early-career talent to join the government moving forward, Kupor pointed to what he sees as future possibilities for recruitment, following Trump’s latest executive order on federal hiring. The Oct. 15 order allowed for hiring to continue more openly in areas like immigration enforcement, national security and public safety, but maintained relatively strict limits for the rest of government.

Most areas of federal hiring will see a heavier hand from political appointees and senior agency officials, with a new hiring approval process agencies are required to implement. Agencies will also have to get sign-off from OPM and the Office of Management and Budget before moving forward with long-term staffing strategies.

Skills focus for the federal workforce

Kupor also noted that OPM wants to focus on attracting talent based on skillsets, rather than job titles. It’s an effort that would build on agencies’ already ongoing move toward more skills-based hiring.

During the NAPA event Monday, Kupor noted that he has seen a pattern of consistent skills agencies are seeking, across a range of positions and job titles.

“We’ve got to streamline that process, where we have jobs that are actually quantifiable and that exist across government,” Kupor said. “Centralized recruiting [and] centralized creation of certificates will … dramatically change the efficiency of the process, but also make it a much better experience for those who are involved.”

Many of OPM’s current goals for streamlining federal recruitment are not necessarily new for agencies. During the Biden administration, for example, OPM and OMB released a hiring experience memo that focused on improving the recruitment process for three key groups: applicants, federal hiring managers and HR specialists. The 2024 plan encouraged strategies that are similar to what the current administration is considering, such as using shared certificates, incorporating skills-based assessments and speeding up time-to-hire.

Moving forward, Kupor said he wants to centralize the federal hiring process when it comes to roles that are common across multiple agencies.

“If we can do that, we’ll have a much more systematized way of hiring people in all facets of government,” Kupor said. “And do it in a way that’s consistent, that’s merit-based and … more efficient.”

The post OPM’s Kupor wants more tech expertise in the federal workforce first appeared on Federal News Network.