Interview transcript:

 

Terry Gerton You have had such a remarkable career. You led workforce and transformation efforts across nine agencies, if I counted that right. What first drew you into public service?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter Yes, I’ve really enjoyed my career and the ability to move around in different agencies. I think what drew me first was my first job, which was at the FBI. And being part of, probably because of the law enforcement-public safety angle, I really appreciated and learned how hard people work, but particularly the men and women who put their lives on the line every day for the American people. They’re unsung heroes; you don’t see that, you don’t understand that unless you are in the organization. And that, I think, was really what bit me into the whole public service and really thinking about, as an organizational psychologist, thinking about what motivates people and really trying to understand how to bring out their best every day. When you work with extraordinary people who are giving everything they have to the American people through the agency, that really struck me as incredibly interesting, but also important. So I really started at the FBI 32 years ago, and I never looked back.

Terry Gerton Well, across three decades, I can imagine you’ve seen a lot of change in how the federal government manages, recruits, retains its people. Your last job, though, I think is fascinating. You were the first and the only chief people officer in CISA. How did that mark sort of a culmination of all the transition that you’d seen in workforce management space?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter We traditionally think of human resources or human capital as the life cycle of hire to retire. And I have been in that my entire career, in that field. But this new model, the thinking was that if you separate and have a chief people officer who could dedicate the time and effort and initiatives to the engagement, the recruitment, retention and what keeps people here, what skills we need to develop, our leadership which is so important to culture. And instead of fighting the HR operations because, you know, if someone’s not getting paid or somebody, you’re trying to hire that person, that’s always going to take priority over what we say is more strategic, more culture, longer-term engagement efforts. So being able to separate that and have both a chief people officer and a CHCO allowed us to really focus on the entire human experience at work. Really for cybersecurity, having to recruit and retain and motivate and develop that workforce was a priority for national security. So, very exciting.

Terry Gerton Well, following up on the government shutdown, organizational culture’s really taken a hit. I think it would be fair to say that. What advice would you have for folks who will be coming back into the HR space and trying to bring people back to work, trying to rebuild that culture? What lessons have you learned that you’d want to share with them?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter I certainly cannot underscore enough the importance of culture and engagement. You have got to keep people motivated in order to achieve these just enormous and daunting missions. And so I hope that the pedal will go back down on the initiatives and the importance on engagement and starting with leadership. But really my advice to all leaders and especially those who are in human resources is just keep focusing on the people. Let them know and appreciate them for their work, their effort, their skills, their dedication. I think that you just have to remind people why they’re here. I would say, look at the people that are working without getting paid. I mean, who else would do that but public servants who are so committed to why they work and what they do for this country? Remind people that’s why we’re here. Our goal and our mission is more important than ourselves. So being part of that is so important. I do believe that the public is even more recognizing that now, probably because the shutdown has gone on so long that the appreciation is there and the importance is there. It’s never gone away. And don’t get caught up in the rhetoric, because what the American people need is really dedicated, smart, innovative public servants. And they have them, they’re there, and they’re going to continue to do the best that they possibly can.

Terry Gerton I’m speaking with Elizabeth Kolmstetter. She’s the retired Chief People Officer for CISA and a newly elected fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration. So Elizabeth, let’s pick up there. You’ve received lots of awards in your professional government career, but being elected a fellow of the National Academy is kind of a big deal. What does it mean to you personally?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter It is a very big deal, and I am incredibly humbled by this honor. I never thought that I would be named a fellow of NAPA. I have known NAPA, I’ve worked with NAPA, I have used NAPA to do studies at many of the agencies where I worked because they are so respected for their credibility, their research, their evidence base. It’s something I’ve always believed in because, of course I’m a psychologist, so I think science and data is really important. But being named a fellow, I think, is probably going to be one of the biggest hallmarks of my professional career, because it recognizes not just my background, but my contributions to public service. And my desire to keep giving now that I’m retired gives me a really important way to keep giving and keep seeking to improve public service, public institutions.

Terry Gerton The Academy really is a cross-sector community and your career has been sort of multisector. How do you plan to work with the Academy to advance good public administration?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter I am really going to be focused, I think, on the workforce part of things. Some of the grand challenges that NAPA has posted are about, obviously, reinvigorating public service but continuing to recruit and retain and motivate people into public service. Getting the story out — what is it like? What does it mean? Why is it important? And I also really believe in permeability. I don’t think you have to come and stay in one area anymore. There’s so much more mobility and opportunity. Come and be a public servant for a while, learn, understand, be part of that fabric, and then go do academia or private sector or nonprofit. But I think coming and going and crossing the different sectors is actually going to create more integration, more partnership across the sectors, which we need to advance our society, really. It’s not so much a great divide anymore like it used to be; it’s really an integrated partnership. So I would like to be part of that aspect and of course improving the public sector talent management program since that’s what I do. I think that we could modernize more and NAPA has had a long history of doing studies on modernizing talent programs again to bring out the best in the people that work in public sectors.

Terry Gerton Well, both of those recommendations, certainly the permeability and talent management, are aligned with exactly what the new OPM director says he wants to do. If you were advising him, where would you suggest that he watch out for landmines and maybe take advantage of opportunities?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter Well, I was very pleased to be able to hear the new director, Scott Kupor, speak at the NAPA conference last week and hear directly some of his ideas. I would say that he does need to keep listening, first of all learning where those landmines are, but also I love his bold move to do some more things that perhaps people say are more private sector, but they’re really cutting edge talent programs. Especially recognizing and rewarding top talent, which he is talking about, looking at how we compensate and reward excellence. I think he’s right on. We need to do that. I also think that we should look at more hybrid with employment at will. I don’t think that just coming in and staying and rewarding mediocrity is what the government needs anymore. Certainly I believe in job security — if you’re doing a great job and you’re continuing to develop your skills, we should recognize that. But I have seen over my career a number of people who kind of coast. I don’t think that’s a service to the American people. I do think we need to, again, reward and recognize continued growth and skills, especially in technology and AI and these new forms of getting work done, and I do not see that as much in the federal recognition program. So I’m on board with him trying to find a way forward that actually modernizes some of these traditional methods that we’ve used in the federal government.

Terry Gerton Elizabeth, what advice would you have for someone, a young person who’s thinking about joining public service, but maybe is disturbed at what they’ve seen in some of the later trends — what would you tell them?

Elizabeth Kolmstetter First of all, always keep an open mind when it comes to your career and opportunity, because you never know where that amazing opportunity is going to open. And I, myself, said I would never work for the federal government because I believed it was bureaucratic and slow. So I always tell people when I give career talks, I am an example of what not to do. First of all, never say never. But you asked if somebody was already open to it, and I would say, walk through that door, get some experience in the public sector. Because until you experience it, it’s hard to appreciate what it is and how it actually works. So I think rotations in the public sector — think AmeriCorps, which is the domestic Peace Corps — there are so many ways to do service to the society, whether it’s local, state or federal, and get that experience. Because being part of a team that is working for a mission that is bigger than profit or any of the different sectors: It’s a different feeling to be with men and women and people of all genders. What is that spark that makes us so dedicated every day to come and make a difference? And that is what you become, a fabric, part of the DNA. You become part of that. That becomes your value set, that we have to do better. We have to keep driving our society forward. And this is a great country with great people who deserve the best. So being part of that I think is very worthy, but don’t think of it as you have to go in and stay for your whole career — back to that permeability. Come in and have that experience and then go to the private sector, or go into nonprofit. But come and have experience, because then you know what it takes and you will always have those partnerships and network as you go forward.

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